Show Notes

Guest Bio: Roberto Abheeru Berruti

Roberto Abheeru Berruti, a certified Holistic Trainer, operates under the regulations of Law No. 4/2013, with official recognition in the Professional Competence Registry of SIAF-Italia. Since November 8, 2011, he has been a Holistic Operator at the Trainer level (cod. VE371T-OP), further affirmed by his registration as P1538T-OP. His holistic approach integrates profound insights from personal experiences, including overcoming addiction and battling cancer, shared in intimate sessions in northern Italy.

Roberto Abheeru Berruti
Trainer Olistico
Via Ovada 113 – 15072 Casal Cermelli (Al)
C.F: BRRRRT69C03A182O – P.IVA: 04052030238

Professionista regolamentato dalla legge N.4/2013
Iscritto nei registri di Attestazione di Competenza Professionale SIAF-Italia
Operatore Olistico liv. Trainer cod. VE371T-OP dal 8/11/2011 P1538T-OP





In the second episode in our 3-part series with Abheeru, he explores the concept of addiction, encompassing not just substance use but repetitive patterns in thoughts and actions seeking momentary relief from stress, and highlights society’s tendency to stigmatise certain addictions while overlooking others like workaholism or stress. Abheeru offers transformative insights on addiction recovery, advocating a holistic approach that cleanses both the mind and body, challenging conventional methods and promoting a renewed understanding of freedom.


“It’s a possibility to be a slave or to be free. And this possibility we can take only when we are adults. We can’t take it when we are kids. Someone can dope himself, can calm the stress through hyperaction, work, through money, through sex, through pornography is not only about drugs. Drugs are just the same as any other attachment.

You know, there is no, no difference. The mechanism in the mind is just the same.”

~ Abheeru



Exploring Holistic Recovery: Insights on Overcoming Addiction

In a recent podcast conversation about addiction, Abheeru delved into the intricacies of dysfunctional behaviours, shedding light on the often-overlooked aspects of drug addiction and the challenging journey of overcoming dependencies. He began by defining addiction as a repetitive mechanism involving thoughts, attitudes, emotions, and actions seeking momentary relief from stress but leading to destructive results. Contrary to common belief, he emphasised that addiction isn’t exclusive to substance use but is present in everyone’s mind due to early life dependency patterns.

Highlighting the intelligence of individuals grappling with addiction, Abheeru shares insights from his experience, noting that those seeking assistance are often remarkably bright and sensitive. He addresses the complexity of familial dynamics, explaining that identical parenting approaches may yield different outcomes based on individual sensitivity and interfaces. Abheeru emphasises the need for societal armour to navigate the current environment, acknowledging that without it, the nervous system of a creative child might become overwhelmed shortly after birth.

Abheeru also touches upon the medical aspect of addiction, stating that it is one of the most powerful on the planet, often overlooked by society. He challenges the conventional approach of imposing discipline and work as strategies to overcome addiction, asserting that these methods often fail. Instead, he advocated for rebuilding the existential base, drawing inspiration from nature, teaching relaxation, breathing, and discernment about fears.

The conversation delves into the holistic approach to overcoming addiction, not just correcting mental attitudes but also cleansing the body from negative thoughts, beliefs, and emotions. Abheeru questions societal norms around addiction, expressing dissatisfaction with the disparity in the treatment of different substances. He urged a reconsideration of our understanding of freedom, stating that dependence and attachment hinder true freedom.

The dialogue concluded with Abheeru encouraging a shift from adrenaline-driven performances in society to embracing moments of pleasure and relief. He stresses the importance of producing endorphins, emphasising that pleasure doesn’t necessarily require external substances but can be achieved through self-awareness, gentleness, and comfort—a path to relief that is both accessible and free.

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Please note: While we do our best to edit the following information, some finer details of podcast conversations can be lost in transcriptions.

[00:00:16] AKP: It’s easy to walk down the street and see people who are perhaps off their faces or drunk or, or homeless or struggling and to lay judgement. It happens all the time. I know that I’ve done it and sometimes those people make me feel scared because I feel like, you know, I’ll watch out for that guy is a meth head or watch out! That person looks like they’re off for their face on drugs or this one’s rolling drunk. But it’s really, really interesting in this conversation with Abheeru, how the seeds of addiction, of dependence are discovered in the conversation and how it’s revealed that each of us in our own way is so-called filling in our holes.

Even as we were tiny babies trying to get our needs met. So I welcome you to join this conversation listening to Abheeru who works with people who have issues with dependency, i.e. probably all of us, and we discover what it means to be a parent, what it looks like to be a parent with children going through addiction or, or teenagers going through addiction.

We hear about Abheeru’s own story with addiction and ultimately how he is working with people, with addictions of all different natures to find the light and the true sense of self at the other end.

We live in a world where there is a lot of protectionism, there’s a lot of censoring of what could have been seen as useful and fruitful information. So let this serve as a trigger warning to anyone who’s sensitive around the questions of addiction, uh, perhaps, uh, abuse in childhood, or even parents simply making mistakes with their children and how that can affect people growing into adults who, who have addictions, dependencies or, or black holes that they want t o fill in, which in many ways is many of us. So if you do have sensitivity to this kind of information, we strongly suggest that you don’t listen to the podcast interview.

[00:02:13] RAB: It’s a possibility to be a slave or to be free. And this possibility we can take only when we are adults. We can’t take it when we are kids. Someone can dope himself, can calm the stress through hyperaction, work, through money, through sex, through pornography is not only about drugs. Drugs are just the same as any other attachment.

You know, there is no, no difference. The mechanism in the mind is just the same.

[00:02:46] AKP: .In our last conversation, Abheeru, you and I, oh, we talked about so many things. We talked about love and fear and addiction and illness and awareness and meditation and what else do you remember?

[00:03:01] RAB: Yeah, I do.

[00:03:03] AKP: Are you going to help me remember? So as a result, you and I decided that we would develop another two sessions. This one specifically dedicated to addiction and another one specifically dedicated to illness, but both of these topics, if we’re going to call it a topic, both of these deep dives are related to the work that you do with people in your groups and in your online connections. Is that right?

[00:03:33] RAB: Yeah. It’s right. Beautiful.

[00:03:35] AKP: Well, let’s start off with a really straightforward question, Abheeru. What’s addiction?

[00:03:41] RAB: Addiction. That’s a great question. Like I like to answer with a statement from Gabor Mate, which for me is one of the best teachers in the world about addiction. Addiction theme. It says like, uh, addiction is just like, um, any, I have to say, any mechanism in the mind, which is made of thoughts, attitudes, emotions, and then actions, repetitive actions, that we believe they are going to give us a momentary relief from something, from a stress, from an inner stress.

And then at the end, they reveal the same result, a destructive result. Okay. So from this statement, it’s quite clear that dependency and addiction doesn’t regard only people that make use of drugs, alcohol, or stuff like that. But all of us, you know, in their mind. Carries like that sort of mechanism, thoughts and emotions mechanism that makes us repeat something believing that is going to give a relief and very, how to say, the more desperate we are about inner stress and the search.

The grief of relief, the more, of course, we, uh, we feel that mechanism is strong and when we believe in it, we believe that we have to do it again. So dependency regards everyone, every human being. And it’s part of our individual, uh, apprendimento, how do you say in English, learning, uh, learning. Yeah. But our existential learning.

Okay. Because like, I mean, we’re born in a very, very paradoxical setup design because we are created with one, let’s say, mammal circuit like animals, which is mainly dependent. And on the other side, on the existential side, we are created totally free. And this is how our life starts. It starts that in the very beginning, we just spread out that fantastic energy of freedom, where nothing is hidden, everything is manifested, and at the same time, we’re just fully dependent from the outside world.

This is the main paradox that we have to go through about dependency and addiction.

[00:06:22] AKP: Wow. So from the very get go, we’re dependent.

[00:06:26] RAB: Well, yes, on the biological level, we are, you know, as an infant baby, we were just 100 percent dependent for everything, food, clothes, environment, cleaning our body, you know.

[00:06:41] AKP: Even beyond the biological, we’re dependent for that emotional attachment too, aren’t we?

[00:06:44] RAB: Well, that’s where the old drama starts then. Okay. Well, yeah, because this is, this is very interesting is what they teach in the dependency training I designed in Italy. It’s like, you know, in the beginning of our life in the human body, we are led by the mammal circuit in the brain.

So, the rule is, you have to survive. It doesn’t matter how.

[00:07:14] AKP: Are you saying the mammal circuit, like as in the circuit of us being mammals, as in animals?

[00:07:18] RAB:It’s in the brain, like I’m saying circuit in terms, sorry, probably is not the correct word in English. When, you know, like when you talk about an electric system in the house, how do you say in English?

Ah, an electrical circuit.

Circuit. Yes. So in the brain, we are set from the beginning with a mammal circuit and an existential circuit and there are two different things. So the dominant one at the beginning is the mammal circuit. Which order, the rule, the main rule is you have to survive, doesn’t matter what, and for your survival, you’re fully dependent from the correspondence of the environment around you, means mainly father, mother, but not only.

The main adult figure that are around us in our early age. So, what, what that means? It means that every existential passion the little kid wants to manifest, if it doesn’t find out there a correspondency, then that creates the survival, that triggers the survival scheme. So it means like, let’s say, let’s make an example.

The little child wants to just manifest a loud, very loud joy, but he’s disturbing the environment. So the environment tells him, you cannot scream, you cannot speak so loud. You cannot make all that noise. You shut up. Okay. So what happens in the brain of the little child is that the existential propulsion is not understood, it is not understood is not taken from the outside world then inside himself.

The brain does a very weird, weird action, so it castrates the existential expression of joy and it adapts the image of the kid to a version of himself where he’s gonna be able to limit his own joy. Why? Because he has to guarantee to himself that mother and father won’t leave him, won’t abandon him. So it must adapt to the outside order, to the outside condition.

If the outside condition is that we don’t like extreme joy, okay, then the brain in the child orders you to adapt to limit your joy. And that trigger in the brain creates an image. An image, a false image is not a true image of an individual, of the kid. It’s a fake image. It’s an adapted image. And from that moment onward That image will become a part of his future personality or protective ego.

And then his, his potential, his full life potential will depend, will start depending on that. So every time I will feel joy when I grow up, the trigger clicks and makes me believe that I can’t manifest joy fully. And we can make hundreds of examples for everyone. And then it’s, uh, all those examples create a sort of patchwork clothes on our skin, like a second phase skin, which is the personality, the ego, what we will sell when we go in the world from that moment onward.

And we depend on that, like we believe in that the brain makes us force us to believe in that because in that way we survived in that way we didn’t lose. The closeness of our parents, that we didn’t lose the warranty of being grown.

[00:11:36] AKP: So does that mean that we then go ahead for the rest of our lives, repeating that same childhood strategy, the survival strategy?

Even when it’s not needed anymore.

[00:11:48] RAB: That’s what we see in the world. In the world we see the same mechanism. People need an outside authority, an outside human figure that represents the parent. And that gives order to them. Okay. And so that in that way, they can maintain that setup. But that setup is very stressful because it, uh, It doesn’t allow us to be in contact with our own existential passion.

And what do we do here if we don’t follow our existential passion? We’re not robots. We’re not slaves. But the way we behave mostly is like that. We behave like a robot machine or slaves or feared, Scareful people that prefer to have an order that comes from the outside rather than taking decisions themselves.

That’s the collective set up since ever. And at the same time, it’s the challenge to start an inner search and go and find our own existential pollution and leave them freely. So it’s a possibility to be a slave or to be free. And this possibility we can take only when we are adults. We can’t take it when we are kids.

[00:13:08] AKP: So Abheeru, does that mean then that when you go seeking religion, or you go seeking a master, or go seeking a guru, are you really seeking that parent? That didn’t fill in that role when you were a baby, did it? And simultaneously, a lot of people find their true joy and their true self through those religious paths.

So is that another paradox?

[00:13:32] RAB: No, on one side, it’s just unavoidable, at least in the beginning. And most of the spiritual searchers get stuck on that point. They can’t, they can’t then get rid of the master, okay? And then they become dependent, okay? Addicted. to the master’s voice or to the master’s teachings.

They don’t dare to live on their own. The joy that they find through the master. So the master has the function of a bridge. And when you have crossed the bridge, then you don’t need the bridge anymore. Very few people manage to cross the bridge fully.

[00:14:14] AKP: Oh, is that kind of like where they fall in love with the hand that’s pointing to the moon, but they forgot to look at the moon?

[00:14:20] RAB: Exactly that, right. It’s more comfortable because it’s less risky, you know, because like we get so attached to that face, fake image of ourselves, the personality that on the psychological level, it feels like dropping that feels like we die. And that’s the main fear. You know, it’s a psychic fear.

It’s not real. It’s not about a real danger around us, but in our system it is just terrifying and unbearable. At the same time, as it was seen before, that also that personality clothes, that patchwork clothes that we carry on and for most of the people our whole life, it’s a very stressful clothes.

It’s a very stressful repetition to hold on. And how to say the deeper is the emotional impact. That all those patchwork impressions had on our sensible system, the more we need to find a way to calm the stress down. That’s why then, you know, we are in the age where we can find all sorts of doping out there.

Someone can dope himself, can calm the stress through hyperaction, work, through money, through sex, through pornography. It’s not only about drugs. Drugs are just the same as any other, uh, attachment, you know. There is no, no difference. The mechanism in the mind is just the same. We need something there to attach to and believe that by attaching to that again and again and again, we have a relief, as I said in the beginning.

But that relief is momentary. It lasts just a couple of minutes, and then we’re back to the same point and ready to start again.

[00:16:07] AKP: And so, does that mean that everyone experiences addiction? It looks like it’s really obvious to some people. You see people who are on the street that are clearly off their face or drugged up or whatever they are.

But there are so many people that you can’t see it. Does that mean that all of us

[00:16:24] RAB: have some degree of addiction? Society needs, you know, to point their fingers. To someone, you know, to blame someone or just to pretend that what they see out there is not about us. So that’s why all the communities in the big town, even the most evolved modern towns, put the drug addicted junkies in ghettos.

It’s just the same like we do with dead bodies of dead people, you know, we put them behind the wall, you know, in the cemetery, so you can’t really see and you go there only for a specific reason and only on a certain date on the calendar and that’s all. And the same is with junkies, with drug addicted people, society needs them in order to avoid, to take responsibility for the way they don’t manage their own dependency and attachment and addiction.

So it’s easy, you know, to point the finger. Oh, look at that. Look at that guy. You know, he’s just destroying himself. You know, he’s sitting on the side of the street, begging for money and you give him money, then he’s going to go and buy another dose of the pusher and blah, blah, blah, blah. That’s, that’s easy, you know?

But then just look what happens in a normal commercial mall where people, you know, run, run, pushed by, they don’t even know what motivation, you know, just to fill holes, holes, fill holes, buying things, fill holes, just appearing in a certain way, performing in a certain way. And they’re just the same as the junkie on the side of the road.

There’s no difference. The attitude inside is just the same. They’re not happy. Filling a hole. Yeah, filling holes.

[00:18:18] AKP: Hey, thanks for listening to our conversation with Abheeru. We’ve created a series of three interviews with him, a general one about life, the universe, divine design and everything. Another about transformative illness in which he discusses his seven year relationship with cancer and a third related to drug addiction and dependence.

All go deeply into the meditative state and lots of other cool things. You’ll find the full length versions in our private Patreon group or the free half hour episodes on farout. show. Links to both in the show notes.

[00:18:51] AKP: And, so how and why does it develop so obviously in some people, like it takes different forms? How is it that we choose different ways to fill our holes?

[00:19:01] RAB: Yeah, well, as I said in the beginning, every time the little child doesn’t find an outside correspondency to his own existential passion, in his sensitive system, that creates a hole.

Because for the little child, the outside correspondency is fundamental. The same as we see with a little horse. With the mama horse, you know, the connection, the physical touch, it’s the correspondence. So the kid needs the correspondence. If his joy, as much as his anger, is not corresponded by the outside environment, in his sensible structure, that creates a hole.

I can’t experience that. So what determines then when we grow up, whether we manage to to stand those holes or we just go like junkies. It depends mainly on two different factors. One is the level of sensibility of the individual and the other one is the emotional impact that the loss of correspondency brought along.

[00:20:09] AKP: Can I just ask one question? You’re saying the level of sensibility. Is that like sensitivity or sensibility? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:20:16] RAB: Sensitivity. Sorry. Okay.

[00:20:17] AKP: No, that’s okay. Cause it’s one of our false friends in Italian and English, isn’t it? Okay. It’s slightly different. So the level of sensitivity of the human is one of the factors.

[00:20:27] RAB: Yeah. And I add that level. Means the level of intelligence because like as a main intelligence that should drive our Life our existence. Okay, the way we stay in the world in the life. I’m telling you like, let’s say and I’m not abundant 90 percent of the drug addicted cases. I’ve managed to help them. They were all amazingly intelligent and sensitive people.

[00:21:05] AKP: So it’s not to do with being stupid or being self abusive? No, no, no, no. In a consciously self destructive way?

[00:21:11] RAB: Yeah, that explains how, for example, you know, in the same family, maybe the parents raise four kids, and one of them, when he grows up, becomes drug addicted, and they all ask themselves, why? Why did it happened to us?

What happened? We did the same thing with all our sons, how is it possible, you know, and this explains why the same attitude that parents try to repeat with all their sons might fit with someone might create an acceptable, um, adaptation process to someone else. And it might just not be, uh, acceptable from, from another kid, another son.

And that depends on the level of sensitivity and intelligence.

[00:22:02] AKP: So does that mean that parents are constantly making mistakes as a parent it doesn’t matter what we do? We’re gonna screw up one or all of our children.

[00:22:10] RAB: Well, I’m a parent myself and it’s just impossible It’s just impossible not to make mistakes That’s the drama, you know Every parent before generating a kid should be clear with that I will be the first one that will make my little son or daughter suffer Goes beyond, beyond will and beyond all our good intentions is just part of the design of the life project.

Parents have that role, you know, they cooperate with life to create learning. So I give you life. I participate to make, to create into yourself an hallucination that you cannot live your life fully in the way you want. I cooperate in that. Okay. And I cooperate with life in order that then you find yourself the will.

[00:23:17] AKP: To go and take what is the true you and yet as a parent, we need, I’m going to use that word loosely because I’m treading on broken glass here, but I think we need to condition our Children so that they can exist in my, uh, in the constructed world. Shall I say, do you know, if we raise Children that have complete freedom and can scream when they feel like screaming, it becomes very difficult to live side by side with them and for them to win approval. Now I’m using those words consciously when approval from the largest society and therefore, you know, feel Accepted at a deeper level or not.

[00:23:51] RAB: Yeah, I agree with what you say. It’s also a lot about our intelligence as parents. If I realise that the attitude I apply towards my kids repetitively creates only frustration and stress, then it’s about me.

Okay, sometimes we also need to be hard and to harden them because what you say is true, like in our dreams, especially in the spiritual searchers dreams, we, you know, we figure out a world of poetry or paradise where everything goes smooth. And, and then yes, in that vision, it would be possible. To grow kids in a very free way, limiting the conditioning to the minimum.

But the truth is that in the society where we are, where we live now, we need armour, otherwise the nervous system of a little kid would freak out. We’d go paralysed after, after a few days. Like if you imagine for a little kid, like just, just born now and landing on this planet, just imagine, you know, like just dive deep into an atmosphere of bad frequencies because the planet is just surrounded by bad frequencies, you know, possession, greed, war, fear, whatever.

And his nervous system is so amazingly responsive and sensitive that he would just go paralysed. It’s just unbearable, you know, to be in the energetic field where we are now. It’s just inhuman. So we need to build up an armour. And, willingly or not, parents cooperate in that. Then, of course, we can’t justify All the parents’ attitudes and behaviours, some are just horrible and they just need not to be repeated, okay?

But averagely, it’s just unavoidable, it’s just a process like that. So what, what is missing in the society education is to talk about Dependence and addiction in the terms we’re doing now, you know, like to expose the matter as something that regards everybody that we are, we’re not different from each other and then to create a sort of social mutual help about, okay, I see dependency, you, you see me, how can we do, you know, to, to melt.

A little more to just relax a little more. How can you help me or I help you to stop repeating dysfunctional behaviours? This is completely missing. We keep the social set up where, uh, people believe that, uh, addiction regards only a very limited number of people and they must be punished. They must go to jail and blah, blah, blah, blah.

This is not okay. Because then the same institution, the political institution that cooperate with that collective vision, they are the same selling all the gadgets to calm your compulsion, the dependency compulsion down from, from a medical psychomedical remedies, uh, and then alcohol, especially in Italy, alcohol and tobacco, they are controlled by the state.

The state makes money with that, you know. And the market of, of, of psychodrugs in the last 10 years is just a boom. It’s just one of the best economic booms in the financial world. We never sold so many psychodrugs like now. But we don’t talk about this.

[00:27:32] AKP: There are certain things which we’re addicted to which are legal and certain things we’re addicted to which are illegal.

Is this just part of the whole marketing contraction expansion model?

[00:27:45] RAB: Yeah. Well, curiously, this is very interesting. All, all what comes from nature that can have like a sort of, uh, relief, potential, joyful relief potential means like psychic plans, they’re all banned, they’re all prohibited and the interesting, I’ve been, I’ve been into this world for, for many years now, like if you’re a drug addicted and you go to the, I’m talking about Italy, if you go to the, um, sanitary system, you know what they do, they just, take your drug off and they substitute with just chemical drugs medicine and if someone then asks and then how do I get rid in the future from this medicine?

No one has the answer because they don’t have it. So I don’t know if I answer your question, but it’s quite clear. You know, it’s like let’s say like if you see like the production of legal hemp Which in North America, in Uruguay, in Portugal has become like part of the state production to finance money for the state.

It’s also like quoted in the market and in Italy, it’s banned. Okay. So the state can make huge lots of money with that. They can produce fantastic remedies, natural remedies. We have no. Counter side effects, which everyone can use, which are excellent, excellent to calm down the craving called punch compulsions.

And the stress compulsion for everybody because hemp is a regulator of stress in the brain. But it’s a business that would be spread to everybody for a little money. And so there’s no interest for the political world to incentivate that. Because it’s going to produce too little money. While the other system produces lots of money for a few people.

So it’s in the interest of all the political system to keep the situation as it is. To let young people go to drugs. Get stressed, don’t learn about how to manage their stress, their existential stress, and then go and buy medicine and be addicted to medicine. The medical addiction is one of the most powerful in this planet and that no one talks about.

It’s a real addiction. If you see the way people behave in a hospital or in front of a doctor. Wearing a white suit is just like, you know, it’s just unbelievable. It’s a fully, fully addicted person behaviour.

[00:30:26] AKP: I fully agree. And there’s no questioning of authority in so many, in so many instances.

It’s, uh, it’s, this is what science says, apparently, right?

[00:30:37] RAB: We can discuss that.

[00:30:39] AKP: We have, we have, that’s why we’re friends. No, it’s not the only reason, but you know, we’ve got some shared values there.

[00:30:45] AKP: Please consider supporting the show on Patreon, where you get early access to exclusive full length interviews. Go to Link in the show notes.

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